Music And We

A Few Thoughts On That Infamous NYT Songwriters List, Inspired By A Stevie Wonder Rabbit Hole

(RECORDED ON MAY 15, 2026) (Because we're not sure if people actually read these episode descriptions, we'll put it here at the top- jamilah checked after recording the episode, and was very glad to be stood corrected- because Stevie Wonder actually IS listed in the NYT piece!  Everything else stands.)This quick episode was off the dome, as jamilah did not expect to record an episode; however, she felt inspired to, after shedding some tears while watching a Stevie Wonder tribute- where the great Greg Phillinganes (who has a long history with Stevie) put his foot in it, because there were some surprising deep cuts sprinkled in.  
This led her to think about the (as stated) infamous New York Times piece, where they, after some apparent deliberation, they chose a series of songwriters, producing a ton of obvious controversy.  Many were upset that Tom Waits and Randy Newman, for example, were missing.  A list of 30 people is going to limit who gets chosen, and if you asked 10 people who should be on this list, you are going to get 10 different answers.
There is a plan to do a more in depth episode, but for now, here's some late night/very early morning ramblings.  
A melodica makes an appearance at the beginning, and Watch-o! the cat knocking something over makes an appearance at the end.  Thanks for listening!
Who are some of your favorite writers?  Let us know at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

I Believe In Podcasts: A Conversation With Jim Shomo of Dark Thoughts

(RECORDED ON APRIL 22, 2026) Forming in Philadelphia- a place with an already solid wealth of organizing, activism and funk/soul music; Dark Thoughts aren't the (Philly punk OGs) Dead Milkmen, but for over a decade, they've been continuing (and contributing to) the longstanding punk community.  
jamilah had a chance to chat with guitarist and vocalist Jim Shomo, a massive Ramones fan.  As a matter of fact, while Dark Thoughts takes obvious inspiration from the band in many ways, Jim does acknowledge that he has yet to master Joey's distinct vocals...  despite people stating similarities.  Jim also makes the distinction between being a 'Ramones band' and a 'Ramonescore' band.  
They also discuss opening up for Oi! legends Cock Sparrer, the cultural impact of Philadelphia, the dearth of punk houses, using the platform you have to bring awareness to political issues, tattooing, ensuring safe spaces in the punk scene, and more.
Music:
Dark Thoughts: Identity Crisis (Dark Thoughts, Stupid Bag, 2016)
Waxahatchee: Right Back To It (feat. MJ Lenderman) (Tigers Blood, ANTI-, 2024)
Dark Thoughts: With You (At Work, Stupid Bag (US)/Drunken Sailor (UK/EU), 2018)
Dark Thoughts:  So Alone (Highway To The End, Stupid Bag/Drunken Sailor, 2025)
Thanks for listening!
To find Dark Thoughts' music, go to: https://dark-thoughts.bandcamp.com/ 
To give us a holler, go to: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

MJ Movie Addendum...

jamilah had a few more thoughts following the last upload, that she hadn't previously discussed with jesse.  
And oh...  she forgot to mention the bad pancake makeup job they did on Colman Domingo, who played Joe Jackson.  You saw where they attempted to conceal the nose prosthetic as well, because there was wrinkling in that area, whenever he made certain facial movements.  Hollywood fronts so much money for these projects, and low(er)-budget horror films tend to do a far superior job. 
A couple of other issues jamilah had with this movie was how MJ's relationship to food was depicted.  The movie showed Michael as participating in bonding through food- while she doesn't doubt this was a thing that existed, the man also divulged at points in his life that he developed an eating disorder, as that was one of the few means of control he had over his life.  Also, they continually attempted to hone in on the fact that he was 'no longer a child, but an adult'; however, whenever faced with any particular challenges, he ran behind other adults to resolve them.  Michael Jackson was as much of a caricature as anyone else in this movie.  
These people should also never be forgiven for the CGI animals, and AI audience shots.   

jesse And jamilah Go To See The MJ Movie...

(RECORDED ON APRIL 23 & 24, 2026) Back in November of last year, jesse and jamilah did an episode discussing the (for many, including jesse) long awaited Michael Jackson biopic, released by Lionsgate/Universal.  jamilah already knew, going in that the movie was going to be horrible, based on the projects MJ's estate put out after his passing.  While it is true that most movies released about him historically have not been that great (even while he was still here), the things released posthumously have been particularly worse.  Everything in this current era that has been watched by jamilah is because of jesse, and once again, he roped her into another one of these moments, so they could discuss it on an episode.  
While you already most likely know what jamilah thinks, what does jesse think?  In this episode, they expound more about the bad (and possibly good) about this movie- which is looking like it's set up to have a sequel.  AND YES, THERE ARE SPOILERS.
Let us know what you thought about this movie: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

A Family Affair: A conversation with MAAFA's Flora Lucini

(RECORDED ON JANUARY 22, 2026/OFF THE DOME INTRO ON JANUARY 24, 2026) This episode has been a long time coming- it has been planned for a while, but we just got to it.
Having been involved in the punk and hardcore scenes in NYC in the 90s, jamilah ended up moving to the west coast- absolutely missing Flora Lucini, who moved there around that time.  Over 20 years later the two met (by way of mutual sibling Ryan Bland (Bushmon/Home 33/ACHE)), and instantly became chosen family to each other. 
Coming up in the 90s and 2000s hardcore scene; Flora is an incredibly inspiring figure in the community.  Known as a 'scene mama', she books and coordinates shows, as well as being a community activist.  Well known in the hardcore scene (obviously), her multi-instrumentalism has led her to varying genres, such as jazz and Tropicália.  
jamilah was absolutely excited to sit back and take in the wonderfulness that is Flora: She definitely does not mince words; however, there is no malice behind the directness, and that is definitely a breath of fresh air. We hope you enjoy this conversation between a couple of siblings, who came up in different generations of the hardcore (and punk) scene.
They discussed everything from:
Forgiveness and redemption
Turnstile (and Knocked Loose)'s success
Gatekeeping v. preservation
The 'othering' of non-European hardcore bands
Music and art being a reflection of society/culture
The centering of whiteness in art and music (and society)
The inability/refusal of people in the scene to detect and challenge microagressions
The importance of/connection to the bass
The next generation of hardcore kids and their impact on the future
And of course...
Bad Brains
Songs on the episode (all by MAAFA):
Libation
Blindspot
Welfare
For The Culture 
Not Your Exotic
Thanks so much for listening!
We'd love to hear from you!  Contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com
   

Who Are The Counterculture Bands?

(RECORDED ON JANUARY 5, 2026) There's always the saying that when things get egregiously bad, there's going to be a plentiful return of protest music.  There's a bit of a disagreement over here in the world of Music And We, as there's never been a shortage of political or protest music, regardless of period in time.  Material conditions haven't necessarily been altered for the better for countless people, so art and music will always reflect sociopolitical inequities.  
The more interesting question wouldn't be regarding whether or not people are going to produce more political music and art; it's whether or not people will create more abrasive, confrontational and incendiary music and art, as a response or challenge to said inequities.  
Will there be a return to a counterculture movement?

Our Favorite Records Of 2025

(RECORDED ON DECEMBER 17, 2025) There's so much music out there in the world, and no one could possibly listen to, or know everything that's been released.  However, jesse and jamilah did find some gems among the vastness, in 2025.  Their choices couldn't be more disparate...  except for one album.  
(jamilah neglected to mention Imperial Triumphant's album, Goldstar, among her favorites of this year; they did get a quick mention toward the end of the episode though.  She also mispronounced Terre Thaemlitz' Soulnessless.  Also, after the episode was recorded, she remembered some shows that were not listed- so it was DEFINITELY more than 50 shows!!!!  The key to being able to see a lot of shows is to see the ones that don't cost much money.)
Let us know what your favorite albums have been this year!  Let us know at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

jesse And jamilah Discuss The 'Michael' Trailer

(RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 9, 2025) Apparently, 'Michael', the Michael Jackson biopic, has been in the works for a few years.  Out of the two of them, jesse tends to follow the posthumous happenings of the MJ (and Prince) world, when jamilah doesn't at all.  jesse (of course) is excited to see this movie upon its release, when jamilah is still working to forget the travesties of This Is It, that Thriller documentary, and all other posthumous projects.  While she consistently hopes for an Errol Morris-type deep dive documentary, she knows that the reality is always going to always lean towards the vein of an Antoine Fuqua blockbuster.  
While she also understands (as usual) that her views and predictions could absolutely incorrect; her initial reactions are definitely in the minority, as the majority are giving this trailer glowing reviews, and are excited to see the movie in the Spring.  
What are your thoughts on the trailer?  Let us know!  Contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

'Metallica Saved My Life': Conversations With Lars Ulrich, Jonas Åkerlund And Many Other Wonderful People, At The Mill Valley Film Festival

(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 9 & 10, 2025) jamilah traveled to California to attend the Mill Valley Film Festival premiere of 'Metallica Saved My Life' (among other things). The intent always was to capture the voices of people who attended the premiere; however, what she experienced was far more than she could have asked for.  
Present friends and community were reunited, new friends were made...  and she had the opportunity to converse with the film's director, Jonas Åkerlund.  She also sat down with her biggest musical inspiration (and a person who's music had a hand in saving her life), Lars Ulrich.  These are experiences she will forever cherish, and will never take for granted.  
Has Metallica's music saved your life?  Let us know!  Contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com

The 'Giving Flowers' Series (episode 5): DEVO (feat. Abby Denson (And A Melodica))

(RECORDED ON AUGUST 30, 2025) Longtime friends Abby and jamilah have been into DEVO for many, many years; however, jamilah has never seen them live.  Given that they are still touring, they decided to do a 'Flowers' episode on the Spuds born in Akron, Ohio.  
jamilah wanted to do an episode as well, particularly due to the misconceptions the band always receives.  While Abby and jamilah's song interpretations may not always be correct (and while some of the things produced have not been side eye inducing), one thing they do know is that the collective was founded as a response to right wing culture and ideologies; so seeing their songs interpreted as 'incel anthems', or seeing statements such as, "This music is what you end up with when you don't allow girls in the band," have always been a curious thing.
While not all-inclusive (obviously), they name some of their favorite songs in the catalog (with some renditions on the melodica, tambourine and cardboard box by jamilah).  While DEVO has been often imitated but never duplicated (except infamously by 'Weird' Al Yankovic (another person who should get a 'Flowers' episode)); there's a reason why their music is celebrated by many.  Interestingly, while they are celebrated (and while they had a brief moment of pop stardom), they are still relatively 'small' in comparison to some of their peers.  Because of this, they were able to maintain artistic freedom (in their various artistic projects/endeavors- which we didn't even get into...  That would be a 10 hour episode).
RIP Robert Mothersbaugh Sr. (aka General Boy), Bob (2) Casale and Alan Myers.
Thanks for listening!!!
Abby's website is https://www.abbydenson.com/
If you want to say hello (or to tell us your favorite DEVO songs), you can contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com